Subject: Results of r.g.r.a survey Date: 29 Dec 1997 18:42:41 GMT Okay, many thanks to everyone who responded to the survey. Once again I found some of the replies interesting and some just plain odd. It just amazes me how many different outlooks on the game people have. Anyways, on with the results: (One quick note actually first-I often used the exact words of respondents, not trying to correct pronoun use..so if you see an 'I' or 'Me', it probably doesn't refer to my opinions but to someone else's. My comments will proceed each answer in a summary) # of respondents-36 (almost as many as in my original survey) Q1)Use of backup savefiles and opinions of them Summary:Most people don't use them but there isn't nearly as much divisiveness regarding this as I think there used to be. Most people put a "I play my way,others can play as they wish" kind of attitude forward. 24 don't use 1 said almost never, but does use the 'cheat death' option usually 1 tries not to, but is glad they exist 3 sometimes do 1 uses them until level 30 or so 1 said occasionally 6 generally do Large selection of opinions: A whole dimension of excitement is added by turning it off The 'Cheat Death Option' is better for beginners (stated twice) Use it avoid bugs and to redo clearly stupid mistakes Only when messing with Maggot to see what he'll drop Good when learning the game Okay for experimenting If a char dies, he's dead. So it goes. I use them because I just can't bring myself to quit playing a character. It seems like such a waste if they just stay dead and it isn't as fun, and the main part of the game is having fun through watching a character develop. Kinda impatient, die stupidly fairly often...saved me from anguish from being dumb..usually do well after level 60 They may be good for novices, but they take alot of the fun out of it Worst form of cheating in Angband Essential for the first win About 1/4 of my games, usually when I'm trying a new character race/class combo or when I'm testing a new technique. General opinion of them is that it's fine to use them, but personally I would never post a winner that had abused unless it was my first winner(too late for that) or I had offed Morgy using only my bare hands or something spectacular like that. "my first char who killed morgoth used the savefile cheat. i don't mind if others use savefile cheat as long as they clearly say they use them in the brag postings. i figure everyone can use the savefile to beat him once. then you might as well move on to dead is really dead." When I get killed by a bug or making a typo I feel justified in resurrecting myself. If I die as a result of my own risky tactics, I stay dead. I used to, and have no objection to people who do, but I found that playing on with a dead character doesn't feel quite right. Winning isn't the meta-goal, having fun is. "I think they're almost cheating, but for new players, they prevent frustration with the game until they learn how to prevent instadeaths. I used them with my first few characters, but stopped with my first character to break 2000'" "Lately, I've been playing without save files. I disagree with the idea that backing up is "cheating" however. Playing with save files and without are totally different games, but they're both fun." It's a game, however people decide to play is fine With the cheat death function readily available, completely unnecessary if your computer is at all stable. Q2)Autoroller use:do you use it and if so how rare are the stats you're looking for? Summary:Most people tend to use this and the range they're looking for kind of shocked me. I just take the first char I roll up and go usually and if I do use it I rarely have to wait more than a few seconds. 3 don't used it 2 almost never/rarely used it 2 used it but I really didn't understand the answers they gave as to what kind of stats they aimed for 1 said:Range: Typically 1 stat at 1%, another from 1-20%, others 50%+ 1 said yes, but is trying to cut down Odds people gave as to how often their stats came up that they were looking for: 1 in 20 1 in 50-500 1 in ~500 Have one at max, one within 1 or 2 of max and rest around 8-10 Like to be able to choose from 3 before 10,000 At least 10 in all stats and high INT for mages, STR and DEX for rogues "I tend to go for one or two stats at their max, two stats two or three points away >from their max, and the remainder fall wherever" 1 in <1000 (2 respondents gave this range) 1 in 1000 (stated 3 times)("Anymore than that and I feel kinda guilty) ("If I get to 10,000 without a hit, I start over with lower expectations") 1 in 500-10K (depending on how quickly I want to get started) 1 in a few hundred to 1 in several thousand 1 in ~2000 (stated by 2 people actually) 1 in 3-5K Try to keep it below 5000 1 in 5000 usually 1 in ~5000 (looking for 2 maxxed stats) 1 aims to max out 2 stats and sets the rest to 3 1 in 5000 ("I love having heroic stats from the outset") 1 in 6-7K Till 2 or 3 at max 1 in 10K (stated by 2 people also) 1 in 20k "I abuse this. Its not unheard of for me to let 'er rip for 80k rolls." Usually 1 char in >100000 Q3:What is your favorite version/variant? No Summary. The answers speak for themselves ZAngband 16.83 (2 and a half votes for 2.0.4, 2 for 2.0.5) Vanilla Angband 12.5 (2 votes for 2.8.2) SAngband 2.33 GW-Angband 1.83 Psi-Angband 1 KAngband "Standard, 2.8.1 with old HP mana semantics and my undefeated/scary monster patch. (Plus a few other utilities). I suppose it's my own variant, but feel my patches don't affect he actual gameplay, they facilitate quicker playing, and less intsa-deaths." Quangband 2.82b .5 Q4:What roguelikes have you played and which do you still play? What is your favorite? Some answers didn't specify if they played the game presently. Sometimes I didn't mark anything down for present in such cases and sometimes I marked down all that they had listed. The variant's totals are even more spotty due to the use of "several variants" or similar answers. Have played Still play ----------- ---------- Angband 36 30 Moria 27 3 Nethack 25 6 ADOM 15 6 Rogue 15 4 Omega 13 3 Angband Variants 11 9 ZAngband 9 7 Hack 8 0 SAngband 7 5 Larn 6 0 MacRogue 3 0 (this is rather different from Rogue) Drangband 2 2 Gw-angband 2 2 Morgul 2 0 Alphaman 2 0 Ragnarok 2 0 Sword of Fargoal 2 0 KAngband 1 1 JAMoria 1 1 Ularn 1 1 Linley's DungeonCrawl 1 1 RAngband 1 0 Cathband 1 0 Slash 1 0 Umoria 1 0 Myth 1 0 Crossfire 1 0 Utumno 1 0 Over 1 0 Favorite Roguelike: ZAngband 12 1/2 (one respondent who said ZAngband said also that they're waiting for the next ADOM version, seemingly to take this spot when it comes out) Angband 12 1/2 GW-Angband 1 1/2 Psi-band JAMoria ADOM Depends on mood at present time Moria SAngband "MacRogue rocked, but doesn't work on anything remotely modern" (sidenote by Mischa:guess my computer isn't remotely modern then) Nethack 1/2 Q5a)What's your favorite race-class variant in vanilla Angband? Summary:Last time high-elven mages got over a third of the vote. Thankfully people now realize the strength,stubbornness and faith of the dwarven priest is more vital than the twinkiness of the thin wimp elf scum. (Been a dwarf person my whole life just like I've always been a cat person..I think dwarf and elf fans get along about as well as cat and dog lovers too) Combo Total Votes Ballots Mentioning It ----- ----------- --------------------- Dw Priest 6 1/5 8 H-Tr Warrior 3 4 Hi-Elf Mage 3 3 "High-Elf Mage until I win" Gnome Mage 2 7/10 3 Ha-Elf Mage 2 3 Ha-Orc Rogue 2 2 Ha-Tr Priest 1 1/2 2 "because it's so...odd" Hu Warrior 1 1/2 2 Hobbit Rogue 1 1/5 2 Hu Ranger 1 1/5 2 Hi-Elf Ranger 1 2 Hobbit Mage 1 1 Hobbit Priest 1 1 Elven Ranger 1 1 Hi-Elf Warrior 1 1 Ha-Orc Paladin 1 1 Mage 1 1 Hi-Elf Rogue 1 1 H/E Mage 1 1 (Half-Elf? High-Elf?) DwWarrior 1/2 1 DunPaladin 1/2 1 DwPaladin 1/5 1 And then there was the respondent who said they only play the combos they haven't yet won with... Q5b)What is your favorite char type in a variant? Summary:Wide array of answers due to the large number possible with all the variants..I'm surprised anything wound up with multiple votes actually. Total Votes Ballots Mentioning It ----------- --------------------- Half-Titan Ranger (Z) 1 1/2 2 Half-Titan Life/Sorcery Pr (Z) 1 1/5 2 High-Elf Mage (GW) 1 1/5 2 Draconian Paladin (Z) 1 1 Dunedain Psionicist (Psi) 1 1 Black magic casters (Z) 1 1 Sorcery/Chaos Mage (Z) 1 1 Ha-Orc Blademaster w/ (S) 1 1 minor in necromancy Rangers (Z) 1 1 Dwarves (S) 1 1 Hobbit Rogue 1 1 Cyclops Warrior (Z) 1 1 Rogues 1 1 Zombie Warrior (Z) 1 1 High-Elf Ranger (M) 1 1 "i like the gw mage but i still feel it is too weak at offensive spell casting." Mostly priests-depends on variant Kobolds (GW) 1/2 1 Giants (S) 1/2 1 Skeletal Priest (Z) 1/2 1 Dark-Elf Rogue (Z) 1/2 1 Half-Orc Warrior (I) 1/2 1 Half-Titan (Z) 1/3 1 Crystal Dragon (Dr) 1/3 1 Kobold Rogue (GW) 1/3 1 Hobbit Warrior (Cath) 1/3 1 High-Elf Psionicist (Psi) 1/3 1 Half-Elf Psionicist (Psi) 1/3 1 Draconian Priest (Z) 1/4 1 Golem Paladin (Z) 1/4 1 Nibelung Priest (Z) 1/4 1 Dark-elf Mage (Z) 1/4 1 Gnome Mage (GW) 1/5 1 Dwarf Life/Sorcery Priest (Z) 1/5 1 Amberite Life/Sorcery Pr (Z) 1/5 1 Q6a)Easiest char type to win with in regular Angband? Summary:Same two as last time topped the list, but surprisingly in opposite order. And gnomish mages once again placed third or tied for third. Total Votes Ballots Mentioning =========== ================== Dwarven Priest 10 10 High-Elf Mage 9 1/2 10 (or as someone said-"GoI, Beserker, Speed, *yawn*") Dunadan Paladin 2 2 Gnomish Mage 2 2 Human Ranger 1 1 Dwarf Paladin 1 1 High-Elf Paladin 1 1 Dwarven Warrior 1 1 High-Elf Rogue 1 1 Half-Elf Ranger 1 1 Ranger 1 1 Half-Orc Warrior 1/2 1 Half-Troll Warrior 1/2 1 Dunadan Mage 1/2 1 Q6b)Easiest char to win with in a variant Total Votes Ballots Mentioning ----------- ------------------ High-elf Mages 2 2 Dark-elf Mage-type(S) 1 1 Mages (GW) 1 1 Rangers (Z) 1 1 Mages (Z) 1 1 Priests with at least(Z)1 1 18/150 WIS without boost Sorcery/Chaos(or Life)(Z)1 1 Mage Dwarven Priest 1 1 Half-Titan Life/Sorcery(Z)1 1 Priest High-Elf Paladin 1 1 Dwarves (S) 1 1 "Anything in SAngband" 1 1 ( I think Julian finds the game even more unbalanced than most of us) Psionicists (Psi) 1 1 High-Elf Ranger (M) 1 1 Rangers 1 1 Q7)Most annoying monster Summary:Once again the magic mushrooms patches won hands-down with a variety of hounds picking up votes. Leprechauns emerged as the most annoyinh non-vanilla monster. # of votes Ballots mentioning ---------- ------------------ Magic Mushrooms 10 5/6 15 Hounds 2 1/2 3 (I also accepted for this "all those bloody hounds") Gravity Hound 2 1/4 3 ANY Breeders 2 3 Leprechauns 1 13/15 5 Life Drainers 1 7/10 3 Chaos Hound 1 1/2 2 Nexus Quythlug 1 1/4 2 Death Mold 1 1/5 2 Memory Moss 1 1/6 2 Jelly Pits 1 1 Giant White Lice 1 1 Drujes 1 1 Spellcasting breeders1 1 Greater Hell-beasts 2/3 2 Gremlins 8/15 2 Fast Breeders 8/15 2 Wereworm 1/2 2 Aether Hound 1/2 1 Hummerhorn 1/2 1 Chaos Tile 1/2 1 Fleeing Hounds 1/2 1 Dreads in a vault 1/2 1 Fire/Acid Breathers 1/3 1 Bronze Dragon Flies 1/3 1 Plasma Hound 1/4 1 Tarrasque 1/4 1 Draebor 1/5 1 Boldor 1/5 1 Software Bugs 1/5 1 Disenchanter Molds 1/5 1 Blink Dog 1/5 1 ("stay still so I can hit you, damn it") Water Hound 1/6 1 Water Vortex 1/6 1 Death Swords 1/6 1 All Wall Monsters 1/6 1 Player Ghosts 1/6 1 Second Summary:Now imagine a level just of those creatures..nice idea, huh? Q8)What is your favorite monster? Summary:Orcs and trolls were popular in all shapes and sizes, with dragons at the top. How anyone could enjoy hurting ewoks I have no clue. Ewoks are our friends, like teddy bears. Total Votes Ballots Mentioning ----------- ------------------ Ancient Dragons 2 1/4 3 (the quarter vote was to "the first four or five ancient dragons you encounter") Solars 1 3/4 3 Orcs 1 2/3 3 Orc Pits 1 1/2 2 Tiamat 1 1/3 2 Greater Wyrms 1 1/3 2 Light-sensitive orcs+ 1 1 trolls Great Storm/Ice/Hell 1 1 Wyrms Dragons. 1 1 ("There's something about slaying a dragon") Lesser Great Wyrms 1 1 Creeping Mithril Coins 1 1 "Enjoyable? Morgoth I guess, 'cause I know I'm winning the game :)" Hezrou 1 1 Uniques in general 1 1 Death Quasits. 1 1 ("They have a great drop") Tengu 1 1 Orfax. 1 1 ("Love those insults") Depends on level/class Ancient dragons except 1 1 Great Wyrms of Law,Balance,Chaos Powerful Undead 1 1 ("Keeps you on your toes") Black Ooze 1 1 Humans 1 1 Black Orcs 1 1 Dark Elven Lords 1 1 Ewoks 1 1 Trolls 2/3 2 Most big,bad dragons 2/3 2 (yes, 2 people used that term) Crypt Creeps 1/2 1 Robin Hood 1/2 1 Dragons when you have 1/2 1 immunity to their breath weapon are rather humorous Troll Priests 1/2 1 Jabberwock 1/2 1 ("For the name") Greater Hell-Beasts 1/2 1 Morgy hand-to-hand 1/3 1 Most of the orc uniques (unless playing a priest or paladin, OOD makes them too easy) 1/4 1 Greater Titans 1/4 1 Total orc pts- 3 11/12 dragon pts- 10 1/12 demon pts- 3 1/2 troll pts- 1 2/3 Q9)Favorite artifact? Summary:Alot of the votes for the big name artifacts seemed to come from players new to the game or who hadn't reached the lower levels. I tried to ignore votes for artifacts the people said they'd probably like to have but have never found in favor of those they have found and liked using. The big surprise was Calris, which finished first last survey but this time got no votes. Odd. Total Votes Ballots Mentioning It =========== ===================== The Phial of Galadriel 8 8 ("The Phial. Without a doubt. If I don't find the Phial, I'm POed. No other artifact has that effect on me.") Shield of Thorin 5 1/3 7 Deathwreaker 3 1/5 4 Dor-Lomin 2 1/2 3 Bladeturner 1 7/10 3 Ringil 1 7/10 3 Thranduil 1 1/2 2 Arkenstone of Thrain 1 1/2 2 Trident of Ulmo 1 1/2 2 Colluin 1 1 Barrukkheled 1 1 Glaive of Pain 1 1 Spear of Orome 1 1 (whoever voted for this managed to get the accent on Orome even.) Belthronding 1 1 Great Axe Dunadin 1 1 Aule 1 1 Zarcuthra 1 1 Iron Crown of Morgoth ;) 1 1 Caspanion 1/2 1 Golden Crown of Amber 1/2 1 Taratol 1/3 1 Cubragol 1/3 1 Faenor 1/5 1 Eonwe 1/5 1 Q10)Angband Accomplishment you're proudest of: Dying in totally ridiculous ways Quitting and going off to do some real work ;-> Not dying when encountering explosive breeders Making Sangband 094 more or less playable. Every time I nail Azrael and survive Clearing a small ZAngband level containing an orc pit and Lagduf, with a level 11 HE Red/Blue mage. " I killed a large kobold once as the first monster I saw on my first step into the dungeon with a Hobbit Mage once. Magic Missles, Flasks of Oil and a lot of luck during the 'run away' phase. :-) (buncha levels jumped when he died...)" **** Undefeated Monster - You see a **** Message. Whenever you see/detect it. New patch allows you to set monsters 'Scary' for a "Scary Monster" message. Other than that, just non-scumming wins. Winning with human warrior in Vanilla Getting out of various scraps Win my first attempt at playing a human warrior Winning with Half-Troll Mage without GoI or Word of Destruction (also found out this respondent used maximize in the victory. Wow) "Killing a 'D' with *one* blow from Grond... it was a *superb* hit and -blink- the 'D' was gone." Attaining Stage 30 with a Half-Troll Ranger Finding Multi-Hued Dragon Scale Mail at 900' Creating GW-Angband Getting to meet Morgoth and...dying Clearing a graveyard without teleport other, GoI or genocide Lungorthin summoned Murazor and I wiped 'em both out Winning with a warrior. That's awfully hard. Finding The One Ring at only 2300'. :-)[That guy died within about five minutes of finding the thing. Apparently there was an Ancient White Dragon there, too.] "The first time I won (with a half-elf ranger, my favorite class/race combo)." Winning my first game Writing MAngband Having a human rogue survive to level 22 Getting a 32nd level Psionicist down to stat gain without save-file abuse. 206 hp at 1600 feet !?! It impresses me. (still alive, too!) Killing Morgoth with no-spellbook ranger Got my butt kicked across at least 10 dungeon levels by Azriel, until I shook loose a (?) armor of elvenkind with nether resist. The subsequent hunt and old-fashioned stomping of the angel was so rewarding! :> Building the mac-enhanced version Winning Q11a)Toughest non-unique monster in comparison to other critters at that depth Summary:Death Swords and Greater Titans gave Cave Spiders a run for their money this time in one of the closest races. Total Votes Ballots Mentioning It ----------- --------------------- Cave Spiders 4 7/10 6 Greater Titans 4 1/2 5 Death Swords 4 1/3 5 Drolem 2 3/4 4 Wereworms 1 1/2 2 Dracolich 1 2 Dracolisk 1 2 4-H Hydra 1 1 Colbran 1 1 Gravity Hounds 1 1 Law Drake 1 1 Nexus Hounds 1 1 Ethereal Dragon 7/10 2 Air Hound 1/2 1 Solar 1/2 1 Umber Hulk 9/20 2 Pink Elephant 9/20 2 Hellfire priests 1/4 1 Q11b)Toughest unique in comparison to other critters at its depth. Total votes # of ballots mentioning it/him/her ----------- ---------------------------------- Mim 6 1/2 8 ("Mim has killed off a few characters. Jerk.") Azrael 3 3/4 5 Tarrasque 3 4 Lokkak 2 1/2 3 Wormtongue 2 2 Kavlax 1 1/2 2 Gorlim 1 1 Khim 1 1 Feldisham 1 1 Barney 1 1 "I leave them alone till I'm ready to handle them" Fang 1/2 1 Grip 1/2 1 Lorgan 1/2 1 Brodda 1/2 1 Nar 1/2 1 Azog 1/2 1 Rogrog 1/2 1 Shelob 1/2 1 Gabriel 1/4 1 Uriel 1/4 1 Tselakus 1/4 1 Q12)Favorite wand/staff/rod Summary:People find a use for disarming? Wow. A nice mix..I think voting really depended on what class you tend to use. Total votes # of ballots with it ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Recall 10 7/12 12 Perception 3 7/12 5 Teleport 3 1/3 4 Detection 3 1/5 4 Teleport Away 2 5/6 4 Speed 2 7/10 4 Light 1 7/10 3 Heal 1 7/12 3 Restoration 1 7/12 3 Enlightenment 1 1/2 2 Magi 1 1/5 2 Cold Ball 1 1 Polymorph 1 1 Disarming 1/5 1 "All the junk wands/staffs (Haste monster, heal monster, clone monster, etc.) become instant "Restore Mana Potions" when a psionicist finds the metapsionics focus. They're neat, but I think my favorite for vanilla characters is my old trusty rod of recall. When I finally get one of those from the BM, life is good." Q13)Favorite realm of spell-casting Summary:Mage fans seem to like the GW system most..each ZAngband type got some votes..in fact I think every magic type got at least one. Total votes Ballots singing its praises ----------- --------------------------- Standard Priest 5 1/3 8 (All but Z) GW Mage 5 6 (GW) Standard Mage 2 7/12 4 (All but Z,GW)) Sorcery/Life combos2 1/3 3 (Z) Psionic Magic 2 2 (Psi) Life 1 7/12 3 (Z) Necromancy 1 1/2 3 (S) Nature 1 1/4 2 (Z) ("Nice mix") Chaos/sorcery combo1 1 (Z) Nature 1 1 (S) "Any Magic class without GoI" Life/chaos combo 1 1 (Z) "ZAngband in general,could use fine tuning though for balance" Death/sorcery combo1/3 1 (Z) Death/nature combo 1/3 1 (Z) Chaos 1/4 1 (Z) Q14)What is your favorite ring? Summary:Damage looked so much like I would win this time...*sigh*...the last half of the ballots though seemed one speed vote after another.I think the best statement maybe came from the respondent who said: "Speed, although damage is more fun". Total votes Ballots mentioning it ----------- --------------------- Speed 17 1/2 20 (including votes for +20,anything over +10 and +15) Damage 8 1/2 11 (including a vote for +15) Slaying 2 1/2 3 Free Action 2 2 Poison Resistance 2 2 The One Ring 1 2 Protection 1 1 "Those I find" 1 1 Narya 1/2 1 Strength 1/2 1 Dexterity 1/2 1 Extra Attacks 1/2 1 Q15)Do you level scum? 1 said shamelessly 5 said yes 1 said yes, especially at stat-gain 1 said often,yes 1 said it's about 50/50 1 said generally no, but they move quickly past boring levels 1 said seldomly 25 said no (though many of thse used Autoscum so the computer scums for them 1 said no, but that they once stopped at level 127 for a few hours to try to find all the artifacts. They never got Aule or Eonwe. Q16)Do you town scum? 1 said shamelessly 5 said yes 4 said "whenever I feel like it" or "on occasion" or something to that effect 2 said for Restore Stat only 1 said for Restore Stat and spellbooks only 1 said for WoR only 14 said for neccesities only (generally Identify,WoR, ammo and Restore Stat were mentioned as neccesities by those who had specifics) 1 said only in desperate times ("Only *very* rarely. If the old CON is down 4 points (not with my dunedain!) and I can't get that Restore potion, I'll hang out for a bit until I can. I've headed down down down plenty of times without X-bow bolts - it just adds to the danger/fun.") 9 said no Q17)What Angband does right in comparison with other roguelikes Uniques 4 8/15 votes Variety of items and monsters 3 votes Artifacts 2 8/15 votes Changes most from game to game/Replayability 2 votes Depth,balance and complexity (in that order) Infinite number of different levels to explore I think it's the inherent balance. You can always get what you need to survive (well, mostly) but it's not easy. Further, there's always something new. Game Balance was mentioned by someone else too It'd have to be the clean, available source code, so that anyone can fairly easily create a variant. "Graphics. If Gw-Angband had graphics, I'd delete vanilla-Angband right away." The relative lack of early YAAD Feeling of hunting down uniques Infinite food and supply stores in town Comparatively intelligent monster play; very large array of important components (the various artifacts, the uniques). The Interface. Really nicely done. The source code Feels more 'complete' than the others General non-silliness from a fantasy standpoint The huge number of different strategies that can be applied to killing a monster Constantly changing levels You can win without excessive luck or spoilers Variety between variants Consistency codewise Fundamentally simple - kill things, take what they drop so you can kill bigger and better things Graphics and turn-based movement Vaults 1/3 Graphics and Sound Support 1/5 KAngband Quests 1/5 "On Sale" Items 1/5 Q18)Favorite feature of a variant in comparison with standard Angband ZAngband Magic System 4 votes ZAngband's races 4 votes Mages can be mages in GW 2 1/2 votes SAngband Skill System 2 1/2 votes Absense of GoI in GW-Angband Skills System in SAngband lets you personalize chars better Multiple realms of magic is a neat implementation Variety ZAngband's boosted monsters and uniques and random artifacts Complexity ZAngband's new ego-items and artifacts I like Sangband's "make your own character" characteristics. Zangband's five sets of magic, the new vaults, monsters, and spells. Presence of Psionicists Randomness in ZAngband Novelty In Zangband, the increased number of vaults, creatures and artifacts. Zaniness of ZAngband I'd have to say the many shops, quests, and special buildings in K. Any magic system that tones down or eliminates GoI, or makes character classes play more in character. GW-Angband's new spells "Fenneling would be a good idea, but it has to be asymptotically limitted, like enchant armour/weapon. Ie, as you reach more and more powerful items it fails more and more frequently and it's more or less impossible to make an item more powerful than some arbitrary level, just as it's very hard to get above +10 (and nigh impossible to get above +11)." Q19)Least favorite feature of Angband in comparison with other Roguelikes: Length 6 votes "The town could do with a bit more - plenty of roguelikes have bigger towns offering far more interaction."/Limitations of Town 2 Liked Nethack's stasis levels but not feasible in Angband Early levels don't differ much from game to game Selling/buying multiple items in 2.8.2 Too easy to memorize everything Randomization You can descend extremely slowly which makes the game a virtually assured win once you pass the first few levels and play carefully. No "quest"-style levels, a la Nethack or the old .QST files. Constantly changing levels (same answer the person put down for Q17) Inventory Handling ("I kind of like Omega there") It's too addicting! The annoying '0' count for repeated actions (especially selling). Lack of interactions with monsters (aside from killing them). Love to see neutral/hostile/friendly monsters who'll talk to you, give quests, etc. It would be nice if there were at least some static levels Someone else gave a similar response: Many other roguelikes (esp. ADOM) have at least some NPC interaction. In Angband, you can only kill them. Not as much "in-depthness" at times I used to prefer the nethack inventory system, but I'm so used to angband's (and macros help a lot) now that it's a moot point. Limited inventory space Repititive - kill same things, get same things to win 1/2 No plot or storyline 1/2 And the best rant award goes to.."The new HP and Mana maintenance code sucks golf balls though straws. I mean swapping ring of con out and then in causes a 250 HP loss !!! Is that right?? Ring off..... ring on.... Arrrrggghhh I'm dying !!! Crikey, what are these people on? It's the *first* thing I change when I get a new variant. I *hate* this, it's crap. I hope this paragraph contrasts nicely with the level, considered tone of my other answers." Q20)Least favorite feature of variants in comparison with standard Angband: Broken balance 3 1/2 votes Lack of documentation 2 votes # of Bugs in some variants 2 votes "If I don't like them, I don't play them" (2 said similar things) "The fenneling stuff in Sangband is awfully twinky. I avoid it." (Another voiced a similar complaint) GW's enchantment limits I cannot for the life of me get used to the interface of SAngband. "Sangband's skill system. (It's a great idea, but it needs a lot of work, and I'm the sucker who volunteered to maintain it. :)" Skills in SAngband I hate the fact that MAngband is real-time, though I can't think of a better way to do it. (From the MAngband author) Waiting around to make a DOS executable "Stupid monsters. No one should have to kill Hobbes the tiger. That's not even funny. I'm scarred for life." Psiband's 'wield the foci to cast spell' feature. Zangband Death Swords Zangband's nasty monsters, although that's also why I love that game. Lack of graphics in SAngband and GW-Angband General playtestedness 1/2 vote Q21:Do you use maximize mode? 29 said yes 1 said almost always 2 said usually 6 said no Q22:Do you use preserve mode? (After about 20 ballots, it looked like I was alone in not using it. Thankfully some more ballots came in showing I'm not totally alone in this) 30 said yes 1 said sometimes;when I play weak char types 1 said usually 1 said "no, but I'm seriously considering it" 4 said no Q23:Do you use auto-scum? 17 said yes 1 said yes, but not at the very start of the game 1 said in anything ("gets boring without it") but ZAngband 1 said for the most part, yes 1 said "Only when I get bored. When I do, I get killed" 2 said sometimes/occasionally 1 said sometimes, and if they do use it they leave it on the whole game 1 said not usually 1 said about 25% of their games 1 said "Only if I have a potion of enlightenment" 9 said no Okay, this was a long one for Question 24. I organized it in alphabetical order so to read the 20+ comments on ZAngband or SAngband, you have to skip to the end. Here goes: Bangband - This is an old one based on PC Angband 1.4, but it had one really cool new class, the monk, who I'll implement if I ever manage to get my Angband variant started. Cathband-1.Seemed too difficult so gave up basically on it 2. The Good: New critical hit algorithm, other small improvements. The Bad: Same old silly magic system makes mages too easy. 3.the features look good; I haven't played the not-buggy version yet (my rogue died miserably to an orc pit at 250') Drangband:1.Good -- The new races add some nice variety. Also, the new monsters are welcome. Bad -- Not different enough. 2. like it, but haven't played since it hasn't been updated recently 3. Didnt play much. Seemed to me no major improvements to vanilla. 4. The new races really "feel" different unlike in most variants. Now if there were just artifacts.. 5. I really enjoy the dragon races, but six ring slots is a bit unbalancing. The farthest I got was with 2 Rings of Damage (+12 and +15 respectively), 2 Rings of Speed (+4 and +3) and a Ring of Free Action and a Ring of Accuracy (+12). 6.Dragons are cool. 'Nough said. GW-Angband: 1. better balanced mages 2.nice mage spells, but I have not played very much. 3.Good -- Excellent game balance. Fixes a lot of the problems with the standard Angband. My recommended alternative for those who want to stay with an almost-standard version. Bad -- Not different enough. :-) (followed by a Fangband review:Fangband: (The same things which I already said about Gwangband apply here as well...)) 4.Yet to finish this, but I like the idea of no GOI. 5.GW Angband isn't too bad. 6.The Good: The magic system overhaul, kobolds. The Bad: Backstabbing seems to favor rogues with big weapons. 7.Some improvements for the mage, but i used hack'n'slay anyhow. Too few new stuff to play more often. 8.I love the new mage spells. The only complaint I have with GWs spells is that stone-to-mud is in a dungeon only book. It's hard to get into the greater vaults that occassionally pop up at 1500'. Kobolds, with intrinsic poison resistance is useful. 9.I like the reworking of the Mage spells. 10.the new spells are very nice; we should make them official. 11. I like the idea of mage-like mages, but the Mage I'm playing is level 12 and feels rather weak, he lacks area of effect spells and non-violent spells (slow, sleep and such) 12. only played one mage, but the spells seem to be an interesting change. Ingband - 1. I didn't download the actual variant, but the idea of taking the down-stairs/not using the town is very fun for a quickie. 2.Good: Pure survival. Bad: Far too limited. Games don't last very long. 3.good for a short game. 4.moderately amusing because there's a relatively rapid end to it. It also requires somewhat different approaches than the more standard vanilla angband. Kangband is fun. The new town is interesting. :) 2.love quests, arena, king, "guilds". 3.very nice. The game remains the same mostly, but the classes feel distinct a bit more. The arena is very nice for warriors. 4.lots of potential; the quests need working on though. 5.has potential with illusion magic and special buildings. Should fuse with Quangband (if we can fit the new armaments in). 6.The expanded town is really fun, as are the quests. No bad things I can see. 7.Seems OK, though except for the bigger town, it's not much different. 8.Much better city, specialist shops, quest levels. Bad: Early stages. Could do better. Mangband - 1.Good:Play it with your friends! Bad: Costs too much, very slow. Psiband is OK.. it didn't seem to offer much new apart from the psionic class. 2.not bad... I haven't played it enough to judge it very well. I'm a lousy mage player, and psionicists are even worse for me. 3.Didnt play much. Seemed to me no major improvements to vanilla. 4.I prefer this over vanilla. The new class is unique to anything in vanilla. You really have to change techniques. 5.having to wear the focus, taking up an extra turn, is a debilitating weakness. 6.The foci are a very nice take on sorcery. I wish only psionicists could use them, though... 7. The Good: Psionic magic system. The Bad: Foci are way too cheap for what they do. 8.Psionicists present a challenge for even the most experienced gamers at low level, but are _far_ too powerful at high level. 9.Really neat, and very hard (at first). Haven't gotten below 1000' yet. 10.Good:New class, option of random artifacts. Bad: A bit too close to vanilla. 11.Tough but challenging, which is where its appeal lies Quest Angband: Too early to judge, but the first quest (15 giant fruit flies on level 6) seemed way too easy. So far, my mage seems very magelike, which is good. 2.not significantly better than vanilla, IMHO. Quests need to be integrated into the game better. 3.I haven't played in recent versions, but the idea of quests was neat, and getting good items for them was cool, also. Rogband - My 2.8.1 with the undefeated/scary patch and old HP and Mana maintenance. (Plus other bits & bobs). It's great!!! (answer by Roger Hoyle) Sangband seemed hard to get into, but the more I hear the more I think I will go play with it again 2.only played this a little, I like the idea of forging, but I never got to try. 3.seems like a messy game, it's hard to figure out how the skills system works, on a deeper level. It's playable but feels messy and chaotic 4.Good -- Really different from the standard game.Bad -- The new system is not easy to learn. Also, the game is somewhat buggy. 5.Good: Weapon and armour forging, fenneling. Bad: Confusing trying to balance out skills. 6.Much too easy at start. 7.Interesting because the character evolves during play much more than in vanilla. 8.NO clue how the heck those skill things are supposed to work... 9.really nice concept, lots of cool ideas, crummy implementation; I hope Julian can get it cleaned up now that he's taken it over 10.Seemed nice. But i stopped playing it when i realized the power of fennelling. 11.Neat. I like the skills idea a lot. 12. Really interesting idea. Great if you are tired of the stereotypical characters. It's interesting to be able to be a warrior early on, and a spell caster later, rather than vice-versa. Choosing what you are good at is nice. So is being able to make your own items... 13.Really liked the personalized touches you can put on your chars. The system can lend itself to abuse, so players have to police themselves, but I think we can be trusted to do that. 14.The Good: Skill-based system. The Bad: Fennelling. Not enough explanation of how things work. 15.good: radical divergence from the vanilla angband class system bad: way unbalanced and too easy, the code is a mess. 16.skill based is cool but still needs some tweaking to balance it I'm afraid 17.Skills are cool, and the two new races are neat. However, it's still extremely unbalanced (read: easy to win with). 18.very nice, but too easy 19.plus:nice skill system 20.Ermm.... From the ng sounds very easy with fenneling however I've never got far due to the *horrible* documentation. Zangband - The new races are cool, the new magic system is slightly odd, and needs some tweaking to make it balance better. That said, it is still my favorite variant (tied with Sangband.) 2.I'm very impressed with this. Top notch. 3.Too hard for me to survive the first levels, I gave up 4.This one's kicking the arse out of it a bit. There's a bit too much to balance and too many insta-deaths. I mean a 1200' unique that breathes chaos ??? Death swords ??? 5.very fun, with a nice magic system, new monsters, and an underlying sense of dark humor that leaves me smiling. 6.Good: More creatures, artifacts, random artifacts, vaults. Bad: Nothing! 7. good: lots of interesting new stuff, harder than angband bad: a bit silly, some of the new things are truly nasty, *Identify* is too important. 8.Good -- Probably one of the most different variants. The new monsters and other stuff make it feel like a new game. Bad -- Game Balance is still somewhat lacking. Bugs. The atmosphere is not coherent. 9.good:Better variation, more challenge, nastier in every way. Bad: Broken balance in some items. 10. plus: great expansion that keeps the feel of standard Angband. minus: too necessary to have all resistances, and too easy to get them. 11. Nice for the experienced player. 12. the magic is totally cool, random artifacts are a great idea, and the new monsters are much more entertaining. 13. like multiple realms but too damn silly 14. Good magic system. Many new races, but i tend to use the same few all the time. Seems to be somehow too easy (the random artifacts are often too great). 15.The Good: New races, arena levels, different level sizes. The Bad: Some ego-effects, random artifacts, and new artifacts are just plain munchkinesque. The new magic system seems to have way too much overlap in the lower books. Too much YAAD for such a long game. (Nethack is short enough so you can survive it). 16.Wow! So many changes. I really want to go out and read Zelazny now! I love random artifacts. So many different monsters and items. I know 2.0.5 has made *identify* scrolls more common, but they need to be even more so. It will take a while to try out all of the races! 17. The best, really. Great new uniques, nice magic system. I love it. 18.Haven't seen 2.0.4 yet (the Mac version kept coming down as "corrupted") so can't judge the new races but seems to have made a few nice changes. Too silly for me at times.. 19. great fun 20. Even less serious than vanilla, interesting magic system, but prone to sudden death. 21. lack of graphic support makes this a non-favorite. 22. the new magicks and races are terrific. Kangband + Quangband + GW-Angband + Zangband...hmmm... 23. New monsters and races say it all. Race powers are also a very good idea, and the new division of magic makes spellcasters unique. Random artifacts is also nice, since it's built in. 24. Pretty neat, with all the new races and magic types. I'll need to play it more, though. 25.An excellent variant. Got all the features (multi magic + news races) and all the humour missing from Angband. 26.Good all around Overall it was really interesting that not one variant-maker or maintainer is enthusiastic about their game. They all took pride in their work but either admitted they can't judge as they're partial or admit that their game needs lots of improvement. Kind of refreshing. Very nice range of opinions out there too on this topic. Okay, hope you all enjoy reading the variety of results there were. I think I'll probably try this again next year sometime..most of the people who responded to Q25 thought that would be a good time range and none thought it too soon. If you want to read the results of the original survey, they're at http://www.pitt.edu/AngS.txt Perhaps I'll separate it into several sections by variant if/when I do it next. Oh well, thanks to everyone who responded and everyone who read through those long results to see what others think of the game(s).