This file includes most of the general commentary; variant-specific game comments may be found in the "variants.txt" file. ======================================================================== 22) What is your general view of the state of Angband and its descen- dants? Is this game headed in the right direction? Angband is a phenomenal game. I've won a bunch of them and I'm still addicted. ...dammit. As long as variant maintainers continue to infuse their creativity into their pet projects, and are unafraid to revolutionize the genre, then we're moving in the right direction. With the number of variants i'd say there's something for all tastes Hmmm... tricky question for a variant coder. I think Lua was due, but I feel like an old-timer when I think about adopting it. A lot of what I've done in my variant seems to be against the tide with regards to what Robert is doing though. I guess I've taken the approach of 'there has to be another way' though. Too many variants in my opinion. People pay less attention to the stories of players who are playing a different variant than they play. Any of you guys play street fighter back in the day before all the copy cat fighting games came out. All the different versions killed the game. I guess so - I always play the latest stable version of Vanilla, and it always seems to e an improvement over the previous version. As long as it doesn't change too much. Some things like the stat system and most of the options are now traditions an shouldn't be messed with just to look pretty and help Newbies to understand what's going on. (I didn't understand, why should they? :o)) if many (or perhaps any) patches or options are added to it I would have to say no it is not headed in the right direction. i'm particularly upset with Angband's jumping in with the point based system of stat set up. I think it should remain as it is. Pristine, fast, simple. Too many variants, I'm never going to have time to try them all, and might be missing the best one! Hence the importance of trying to make V as good as it can possibly be. Quite a lot rests on what the "big" changes are that justify a change to major version number - many people have long held that the whole game needs rebalancing with a new combat system, because of the rather silly delay at stat gain and the sudden rapid dive to 4000' soon afterwards. The production of 2nd generation O-combat is an opportunity to do this, which I suspect will be declined. So I think V can be said to have stagnated some- what, though JLE has given it a new lease of life (if incorporated). I think that Standard Angband should get more aggressive development, adopting well-tested features from other variants like small levels and a better magic system. Definitely. I've just been trying the JLE-style and alpha changes in the latest versions, and I think they've added a lot to the game. I do. I think Robert's doing a great job in maintaining the spirit of Angband while making it more fun to play. Although I don't agree with every change (such as palantiri being light sources when Gandalf states that "they cannot see in the dark"), I think Angband is steadily improving. I don't know if I like this Lua stuff yet, but I'm going to have to look into it more. I think some variants have gone overboard in terms of things they've added, and have become a hodge-podge mess instead of a themed variant. Overall though, it's good to see such an active community helping the game evolve. Variants too crowded- deduct from progress of the main game Yeah, I love variants. I think it's very healthy, just look at all the variants! So far so good. Best rogue-like out there. Since I was a hardcore Moria player, Angband is all I have left :) I don't have the time anymore but I used to maintain a borg version, and I must say, the improvements made by Ben and Robert are worth waiting for. there i nothing interesting in vanilla anymore for me. pern develops too fast. It's still quite actively maintained, so yes, it must be :) I feel that any variant that places improving gameplay as its primary objective is headed in the right direction. Since that's most variants (and Angband itself, more or less), the overall answer is yes.. I think the introduction of LUA is a good thing, though admit it's not right for all variants. I'm looking forward to further releases of Unangband, and Elasticband, and intend to try Cberband and Morseband in a little while. I love the variety of the *bands, and think that most of this is where the charm lies. I used to play Moria about 3 years ago, but it was too darn hard (and I never realised you could save scum). And to think I find vanilla boring now... Yep :) Some of the descendants I don't like but others I do. Overall it's going well IMO. With the addition of LUA scripting, definitely. Not sure. I don't actually have the latest versions of most variants, but it does seem to me that the game is becoming more and more complex, with a vast proliferation of classes, races and extra command keys. I used to have the entire list of commands for Frog-knows printed out on a single sheet of A4 - in fact, given the absence of a help file, I learnt to play by trial and error (I spent my first few games killing monsters by 'B'ashing them, since no 'attack' key was listed!) That wouldn't work now. On the whole I suspect 'deflation' and 'back to basics' measures are required, and I like what I understand about [O] and the JLE Patch's attempts in that direction. Since I'm playing the TK versions mostly, I'm a little behind. I think Vanilla needs to adopt some of the features found in the variants, but not a lot of them Oh, it was a sad day when stacking and carrying became default options. Angband isn't what it once was. I think Angband is leading Western civilization in its decline. i didn't like floor stacking when it came. i still don't. only now i can't turn it off. sigh. Awesome game, probably play it for many more years I am a strong traditionalist. I don't object to improvements made to the user-interface and the addition of features not affecting game-play. I welcome additional user-customizability. But I would prefer that spells, monsters, and item lists, etc remain fairly static. That said, I am actively involved in maintaining two variants (Kangband and Zangband). Variants should experiment and innovate and I enjoy playing many variants as much as I enjoy the original Angband. I have yet to be able to tell which direction it's actually headed in. However, as long as it includes user-friendly customisability that's mostly fine by me. I think you all know my views on this :) I see Angband rapidly heading towards the type of chaos that Z is - just feature after feature thrown into V without a serious consideration of how to fix the underlying problems once and for all. V should have almost no options at all and serve as a template for those who want to make versions with options as they see fit. No. Most variants (and, as of v3.0.0, Vanilla itself, probably) have gone too far from what I consider 'good' that I pretty much stick with my own variant these days... I am of the opinion that there are too many options that frankly could be removed through a good redesign of some of the internal machinations. Does this belong in Vanilla? I can't say vehemently one way or the other, but the changes would definitely be non-trivial for some, and definitely controversial. This is one reason why I do play O almost exclusively. It has many directions all of which are fun. Yes. Keep those variants coming! Lots of great ideas and games to try. I'd say so. I think Robert's doing a good job as maintainer; he seems to be comparatively free with user interface-type changes, but conservative about anything that affects gameplay, which is IMHO the right thing to do. Mostly yes; this is a wonderful community to be a part of. There are some things which concern me, like the urge to add convenience, or "realism", or "neatness" to the game even if it sacrifices game depth, color, or game play fun, but basically things look great. My favorite part is how different the variants are to play. Too many variants that don't seem to have a clear vision About vanilla, I do not like the addition of items that "complete the resistanes" like rings of electricity with an activation. Yep. It's going nice and slowly, and additions are usually well-thought-out and tested. Though I think floor stacking was a big mistake. I'd like to see it turned back into an option.... Angband has too many half-maintained variants where lots of development possibly gets lost. Also, not enough bad ideas introduced in variants get removed fast enough. Angband (vanilla) itself finally starts to move in gameplay terms again, which is great. The newest alphas may be too easy for the player, but I believe this can be balanced (and I hope it will). I'm still waiting for someone to develop Pornband. Fighting off groupies with sex toys and wearing latex armor... The possibilities for silliness are endless. I think it's doing great for something with such a terribly restrictive license. If the non-GPL parts were to be replaced it might become amazing, as it could be shipped with operating systems, for example. Is there a "right direction"? Let the variants multiply and the debates rage. Variety and debate always produce more than a boring consensus. I didn't know that there _is_ a State of Angband. What is its constitution? Which other states does it border on? Generally, I think so. For vanilla, JLE patch looks interesting. I would like to see even more Tolkien focus though, and feel a bit alarmed by the talking about removing options! As far as variants go, together, they cover most directions... and some of them do things I like, other's don't. So I just have to choose which ones to play. It's not looking bad at all. I'm especially interested in where scripting will take us. I might even try Pern if once Darkgod adds skills to it. I would say so. Angband should try to find a state where it can actually stop development, so as to provide a permanent, stable base for variants. It should also add a few new things from variants, like the small levels feature, that have been tested and are definitely stable and not unbalancing. Personally, I'd like to see a game closer to a CRPG, with more NPC interaction, quests (possibly), horses, and so on, but I don't want Vanilla to turn into that. The most promising games, in my opinion, for becoming what I'd like to see, are (in order) Cth, Heng (from what I've heard of it), ADoM, and Pern. Maybe game is too easy, at least SI for H-E is too big advantage in early game Yes. Some variants faster than others, perhaps, but everybody will get there in the end. Vanilla does slow progression in right direction. Ey is running very fast in right direction. :) Any progress at all is a good thing IMO. Overall, it's absolutely fantastic. Mad props to the whole community! I love the wealth of variants. I am a little hesitant about the extremes of customizability we are moving toward - I'm afraid the ultimate price may be too high. This is a quibble, though. With all the variants, it seems to be going in every direction at once, so one of them must be the right one. I am rather disturbed by the number of people who are clamoring for boring features to be carefully preserved, or even restored from the trash can. I don't expect the maintainers to be seduced by old, tedious ideas, but might RR be less inclined to attempt radical improvements? More generally, where Nethack has gone for complexity, Angband has gone for balanced combat. Nethack has no top on how many HPs a character can accumulate. Meanwhile, an Angband character's maximum HPs is designed in (with a few percent of added randomness). This lets the challenges be closely tuned to the power of the character - or at least his likely power at that stage of the game. The effect on game balance is good - my first Nethack win was with an overpowered character, and the end game felt like dropping a ten ton weight through wet paper. Unfortunately, it reduces most of the game to "get the next tick mark on your list of resistances and continue". For me, this makes Angband less intellectually challenging than solitaire. I'm getting bored around Clev 30. And normally, I -like- what I call "grazing games", where you just wander around and pick up Glittery Things. I regard boredom as Angband's one big problem. I can't see that Angband can make a large move towards the complexity I enjoy in Nethack. The variants have made a lot of innovations. That helps chart out the sort of changes which are possible: o Balance-destroying powergaming (Undead Possessor Alchemist Trump Dragonrider Arch-Mage, or whatever the terms are). o Minor add-ons (yeeks as a race). o New areas, giving the player a broader range of options for where to graze (wilderness; multiple dungeons; quests). Powergaming is fun... but for a limited time. Minor add-ons are nice, but remain minor. The only clear area for big improvement seems to be new areas to play in. (From what I've read, the JLE patch is in a league of its own. It was apparently a good, solid rebalancing of the game play over most of the dungeon levels. (Plus new Glittery Things, IIRC.) Unfortunately, once JLE irons out the rough spots, that's it: a JLE 2.0 patch has to strike out in a new direction.) Finally, by stat gain, most battles are over before they begin, with the monster(s) being hopelessly outgunned and inflicting no noticeable damage. In sharp contrast, a few monsters are deadly, and can kill if you're ignorant or sloppy. A absurd example is a dragon. You fight it for N turns, and it feebly paws at your armor. On turn N+1, it breathes, and you're at the brink of death. The same monster is both a wimp and a lethal threat. It would help if the melee damage / special attacks were rebalanced so that direct melee was a significant threat, and the special attacks weren't over the top. Having melee at 10% of a nice threat level and the special attacks at 150% of a nice threat level is not balance. (I hope that the JLE patch does this. If not, well, there's a rough spot left for JLE 1.1.) --------------------- I hope so. :- --------------------- Generally, I think that the best thing is that even if I don't like where it goes, I like it so much now that I don't really have to upgrade if I don't want to. I think so! Each new release has been generally better than the last! I think Robert is changing gameplay too slowly right now. The main line of the game has in the past rapidly absorbed features that proved themselves in variants. This isn't happening as much as it used to, though this trend extends back to the last few versions Ben released. IMO, not quite. Somehow there seems to be a point of view that more is better. That is not my opinion. Lots of things that are now imported to game mess with game balance. Newer versions are way too easy to win, and that removes some of the feeling when you finally win the game. There are some broken features that are not corrected even in newest versions. Vanilla is not really headed in any direction - it has been stagnant for a number of years. Obviously, the proliferation of EveryManAndHisDogBands has had a lot to do with this. I`m *very* happy with them, gets better and better every year. Dunno. Ask again after 3.0 is out. I think so. There are a lot of interesting innovations in Variants like Oangband and Pern. There is no one 'right' direction Nope, not at all. It seems people are concerned more about the cleanness of the code rather then the enjoyment of the game. I don't care maximize, non-maximize the autoscum and the level feelings are ugly! I love them! Ummm ........ don't really know. I think it would be great to attract more people to the game by incorporating some graphics or other means, but I wouldn't want the game to be dumbed down in the process. Having "dumbed down" options in the "normal" game would be acceptable. I think the graphic/sound stuff is ludicrous, and actively subverts the strengths of the game. I don't care particularly if someone wants to see the same, less clear, little icon of a troll over and over and over again, but it ought be noted that a fully graphical game (Diablo II, say) can never have the variety of weapons, spells, or critters of *band. Time spent on graphics you will see again and again is enemy of diversity of content. More importantly, Tk versions bother me and have since their creation. I have no complaints at all about better interfaces for our beloved *bands. Far from it! But Tk versions have always also included game play changes--some of which could be considered cheats--as part of the package. The two ought be wholly separate. I know I am in the minority saying that Angband is NOT IN ANY WAY a role-playing or even "computer role-playing" game. People ought to be free to play it as such (see the something-or-other princess player above), but I object to any gameplay design changes made to encourage or facilitate such. They might make a great game, but it will be a *different* game entirely. A scripted one, however loosely. I'll never forget a long running argument I had hear a couple years ago with a another player; we went back and forth for days until he finally mentioned he always played his Z spectre characters without armor because that is how they SHOULD be played because it was in character. This instantly voided his play balance arguments. When I play a role-playing game, I am the strictest possible adherent to staying in character (which people too often think they are doing by playing stereotypes from second or third rate fantasy novels instead of playing them as people [AD&D's alignment system has got to be role-playing's biggest crutch for incompetents]), but forcing *band into fake-role-playing territory by mechanics is lunacy. Again, it might make a great game, but it would not be *band. And it would be inherently limited in myriad ways *band is not limited. "Realism" concerns relate to the above paragraph. Fidelity to source material is an issue: no *band is anywhere close to faithful. Attempts to be so WHEN THEY IN ANY WAY COMPROMISE PLAY are stupid. I don't care if Elric should drop Stormbringer, or the ring dude should drop the One Ring. Both fuck up game balance. Both items ought to be terribly rare, and if they are not, the randomness that makes *band so playable and re-playable is compromised. *band has moved more and more in all the above directions over the last few years. Pernband is nearly Nethack (related and additional issues). Pretty much, as long as it doesn't get *too* much more complicated. OAngband is doing great for the most part. I haven't really tried the latest Vanilla or any JLE-patched version so I can't say about them. Generally, I'd say that Angband is a bit too item-oriented. When diving, it is equipment, not character's level or skills, which decides how deep I can go. I would like to see this change. I don't want to wait forever in 950' for see invisible, free action and blindness resistance, then in 1650' for poison resistance and maxed stats, then in 1950' for dungeon spellbooks and speed rings, etc. Can't really say I have any complaints about where the game is headed, but then I guess I'm fairly easy to please - as long as it's fun and stable (which, for V and the variants I've played lately, it is), I like it.. :) No opinion, really. I'm currently using (V) 2.9.2, which works fine for me. Any major changes I would like to see implemented as options rather than 'mandatory' features. ======================================================================== 23) Do you know of anything in other roguelikes that should be ported over to Angband? slime mold juice should do something (as in Moria?) I like this complexity. Sinks. Ice-boxes. Shops as rooms with items. Statues with spellbooks. Water traps and iron golems. Wands of petrification and non-stone golems. Pets on cursed items. Cockatrices. Etc... Ragnarök: Fennling (merging wands' charges) name-forgotten: char can obtain the skills other classes start with Graphics from Diablo II. As an option, of course. Yes, I would like to see: experience pts shown to reflect how many pts are left to reach the next level (as in APW Borg) I'd like it to be able to handle large screens and to save the sound option so that I don't have to manually turn it on every game. The help system from Oangband or PernAngband (and documentation) The ability to have really long character names, like in the original Rogue. I was very fond of thinking up names like "Laymo the Barely Adequate." ADOM's tactics system If a broader skill-set (like ADOM) was included in Vanilla, I think Angband would be perfect. Add a few more options besides just killing and looting. A simpler spellcasting interface, a l'ADOM. Monster susceptibilities and player ghosts, from Frog-knows :-) Dragons that take up many tiles. In Nethack, stepping on a "trap" square doesn't always set the trap off. This could be used for mechanical-type traps such as Poison Needles or Trapdoors. In return, Disarming traps could be made harder for non-rogues. (Maybe a sufficiently high dexterity could guarantee avoiding a known Trapdoor completely even by stepping on its space, thus rendering this type of trap irrelevant once it is known: similarly with poison-needle traps. But summoning runes or teleport runes, based on proximity, should *always* go off until disarmed.) Extended ASCII characters. Quests that aren't just another dungeon crawl. Perhaps carrying an item to a shop in a far away town or similar. For those that are considering a skills system, I'd suggest borrowing the one from Crawl. If a skill system is desired, look at the one in Crawl for ideas I like most other roguelike's char creation methods better than Angband's. Wands of wishing and ring identification by means of sinks from Nethack. We need Elbereth too. (just kidding) In NetHack (yes, I know...) damage below 5 points is "You hit the kobold." rather than "You hit the kobold!". Something like that could be improved with some use of capital letters, adverbs, etc. [Ed: Great idea. I'm on it!] adding some form of time pressure - like ADOM, though hopefully better implemented and balanced. Skills are the main thing; I don't have any great ideas how to balance them, but I'd really like to see more use of skills. The ADOM skills set. Skills should be made a bit easier to acquire, too. Also, spells should be memorized a la ADOM. Nymph monsters from NetHack (or a monster with a hit to disarm/disrobe :). Petrification for medusa, dracolisks, and cetera (not NetHack's, however) Nethack's conduct system (see below) Someone else mentioned ADoM tactics. Not a bad call. More objects that are part of the dungeon (tables, fountains, ...) and the use of junk-items for various purposes. Possibly also quests. Crawl deities? The graphics from Nethack maybe... Quick Start from Pern and Ey The Armour system of Adom with Dodging/Protection Value? IF we are going to have a wilderness, I prefer the compressed time and danger of Omega's wilderness. ======================================================================== 24) What game features do you really appreciate (in any variant), that you want to see more of in other variants? (Examples might be a great port to your system, bigscreen, neat dungeons or rooms, terrain, wilderness, easy open, spells, autosquelch/ autopicker, graphics, docs/info display, scripting, monster AI, neat monsters/objects/artifacts, and more.) Please don't hesitate to mention your own stuff! -I like how Oangband has made rods/wands/staves worth something, even late in the game. I like how O has made chests somewhat special to find. I like the level variations within O, especially the rare, "themed" levels. And the increased AI in O made for some new challenges. -Bigscreen is very nice. I also like the changes that [O] made to mage spells. -Fixed quests, monster AI, multiple towns, extended shops, wilderness, player ghosts - Pern+ wiz mode markes. - I think Unangband has a lot to contribute elsewhere - [0] docs & interface Better sounds. Of course you can fix this yourself if you want. Also the ansi version of angband has an easier to use shopping screen. TKband is sorely missed. It was something I could show off to non-players and have them actually appreciate and understand. Easy open is very helpful - autosquelch (squelch on ID) is nice too, from what I've seen of it. Musus Umbra's front end and compiling instructions for Acorn. CONFER_* from [CatH] (makes paur*s useful). Wood Elfs and the crit system from [CatH] also. the documentation and help system in Oangband. autosquelch, bigscreen, mages not needing to rely on melee or missile weapons to win Small levels is the best feature that has been added to any variant. I like my notes patch a lot as well. realms of magic approach used by Zangband, Pern, and others. I also think that the new randart patch has improved that part of the game a lot, and I hope it will be a part of Vanilla soon. The monster light patch from APW is kind of cool - I'd like to see that in vanilla... can't say if it's really balanced or not though. I'd like to see a more user-friendly character generation screen in vanilla, where you get to see the bonuses for races and classes before you pick them. I know some variants do this, and it's definitely a good thing. The bigscreen patch is very nice. Wilderness/dungeons/towns/quests of PernAngband :) more varied dungeon generation, random artifacts, convenience features (i.e. trap disarming, squelch), and other things that make a looooong game less repetitious Auto-squelch. Look at Pern or Z...the wilderness/quests would be a perfect addition to Vanilla. I like the Kangband autosquelch system, which allows you to autopickup or autodestroy certain items by moving over them. I also like to see the BorgBand's display XP needed to advance a level instead of total XP and its status window where you can see the resists and slays in a small window that fits below the equipment window. Also the Monster view window (I forgot who made it) and Chris Kerns auto notes. Anything written by me, especially autocentering (the scrolling patch). I'm partial to the knowledge browsers (which most people inaccurately attribute to me but actually come from Kangband, though I did improve the interface somewhat). Just about everything in Gumband, the uniques, the artifacts, the display damage dealt. I like auto-disarm/auto-open on move features and I like Pern's squelch and scripting stuff, plus the vast array of race/class/sub- class choice. I would like to see the interface beauty of the Tk versions ported to the windows versions. 2.6.2 zangband almost has it, but not quite... In other variants: Easy open, bigscreen. In the one I'm currently developing: heavier emphasis on monster vulnerabilities to brands and elemental spells, thus rewarding a player for choosing the right spell for the situation and for carrying swap weapons. - Possibly Steven Fuerst's fractal caves or anything that generates nonstandard rooms. I like Oangband chests, and the extra info given on non-artifact items and when browsing spells. (It wasn't until I found this newsgroup that I had any idea when the 'I' command actually did, since when applied to any object it always seemed to say "you see nothing special". Therefore I'd given up even trying to use it.) On which note I'd add - I also like [O]'s documentation. Only someone who learned Angband without any help files or tips from any other players at all can *really* appreciate good documentation :-) I also like [O]'s special levels, and the ability for the (rogue) player to set traps for monsters. I rather like the monster corpses in Kamband, and the way you can get bounty money by bringing back the heads! Also the way that traps affect monsters too. I like variants that let you throw potions at monsters - right from the beginning I'd always wished for a way to force-feed that Orc with this Potion of Poison... I liked the way that Frog-knows used to auto-centre the screen on the player when you press 'L' - this seems to have got dropped at some point, not sure when. I like [CatH]'s XP-needed display on the main screen For V: Small dungeon levels option, quests, an expanded town, resetting recall, graphics that display like they're supposed to (squares, not squished rectangles), regular artifacts + equivalent number of random ones, more varied types of ego items, O's really cool background descriptions, auto-destroy worthless crap, an easier interface (like TK) the number one feature i'd like to see is ---- monster susceptibilities next would be (and it's not totally unrelated) a mage with useful _attack_ spells. i remember Moria had better balance in this regard. your mage could choose a frost bolt against a red dragon or a fire bolt on a white dragon. that was fun. Autosquelch I like the additional terrains found in many variants, Oangband's improved AI, Zangband's improved monster drops (as a means to limiting junk and other unwanted items in the dungeon as the character progresses), optional quests a'la Kangband though these have some major drawbacks, Kangband's autodestroy/autopick feature. Easier spell scripting, and ability to customize spellbooks. Multiple-dice weapons. I love the Arrows in some of the variants having random base dice. Clean power-level adjustments for your stats. I like the monsters seen window. A blinking or purple name to denote the unique or dangerous monster is a good thing and saves many off-screen deaths. Display of damage dealt by melee or spell (though not the number of HP the monster has left, like in Wizard Mode). Increased damage from rods and wands - at least double what they are in vanilla. I love autosquelch. like the O monster AI/spell point combo, O combat (with great hopes for the second generation O-style combat). Bigscreen, Eyangband/Oangband autosquelch, Eyangband "reroll new character based on old character", Hengband Museum, Eyangband character creation screens (with stats bonuses displayed), Oangband item information. Use Drangband Priest books in other variants the borg! please someone port the borg over to Z - if not I'll have to do it I like the magic systems in Z and Pern, the varied spellbooks in Un, the room descriptions and themed rooms in Un, the new shops in Z (though I guess I'm in the minority), the rebalancing of the monsters and treasure in Z, the ability to play pure spellcasting classes in (especially) Pern and O, Z and Un. Rod/wand stacking as originally in O (Un's is a little different and so far somewhat buggy). Rods/wands/staffs being powerful enough to be used for most of the game. Lots of neat vaults and special rooms. Random artifacts including rings, staffs, etc., and new ego items. Monsters dropping themed treasure, chests that contain decent stuff. A/64's character creation system (teachers). I like the temporary-status display in Z; I appreciate being able to glance up and see if I'm still berserk or have my temporary poison resist- ance up. It doesn't look hard to code, and it would be good to see it in other variants. The one feature I really enjoy is a decent autoroller - back in the good old days (at Warwick) when you lost a character you could spend hours rolling up a new one and by the time you'd done this you might be so tired that you'd die carelessly. I certainly played much more carefully when I knew that rolling up a new character could be a pain in the arse - mind you this is probably why I had many more winners back then than now ! Easy patch, autosquelch, autoscum. They all allow me to enjoy the game more than before Easy open is great. I wish for enhanced rogues and better magic items in more variants. And any AI improvements to make the game continue to frustrate me while not exactly allowing insta-killing would be great. I wish V had an astral mode and a wilderness. I like how PernAngband makes townscumming for essentials unnecessary, by adding shops, and making items available in more shops. More interesting rooms, themed stuff, squelch, better items (O and JLE especially here), and better docs/info/inspect (O especially). Floor stacking. Removes the old tedium of having to lead ancient dragons out into the middle of rooms before killing them, or keeping backing while killing an orc/troll pit. Pern-style Autosquelch - I'd really like to see this in Vanilla, especially as it's not a game-balance change, only a convenience feature. Removing more tedium is always good! Better monster AI would always be interesting. Good documentation - I mostly liked O's, though I found it lacking in some regards. Pern's felt too difficult to get an overview off it (especially with all those lots of races and sub-races and classes). Vanilla's is somewhat insufficient. The dungeon smoothing in Z is probably the most appreciated at the moment. It's so nice to able to just steadily dive without breakpoints (though sometimes random quests do introduce the need to get some specific resistance or such, but I think that's ok). The new rooms and terrains are also great. Skills would be nice, or at least unifying the use of pvals (though speed really can't be) so that they would all be of equal help, i.e. the same scale for stats, searching, stealth and everything else pvals can affect. Another would be multiple pvals. Linux ports. World maps like Cth's. Skill systems, whether inspired by Cth or ADOM. And above all, horses and riding weapons, now that Heng's translated. Quick-start. The prettier Ey user interface for nearly everything. The O inspect messages. O combat. Ey stats. Mac-Enhancement. Delayed level feelings. The thing in GSN where you can do stat-gain at 150' by scumming novice *s and eating their corpses. I think unconnected stairs should be on default. Ego Lanterns from Ey. Terrains and great variety of rooms from O. Big-screen support. Y/n/k prompt on pick-up. (This is so easy that I can code it if it's not there.) Ability to select top items from floor stack with '.' (O?) player ghosts. The "show visible monsters" window! And 4g AI, item description, extensive docs like O and Pern. Bigscreen. - More playability without special (spoiler-type) info. - A quiver in the new Oangband style by Leon Marrick. - Reduced/improved monster drops. - More mixed blessing type items. - Improved monster AI - coupled with reasonable limitations. Oangband has implemented one version of this, but others are possible. Angband has sat on the same tired AI for too long. - More interesting dungeon levels. - More interface improvements. Eyangband and Zangband are really strong on this front now. - Classes that really play differently. - Autoconf. - I've seen character dumps from some variant where each artifact had a few sentences of description / background. That was quite nice. [Ed: I wrote that background text, and do /not/ think it was a good idea to use it in every bleedin' char dump! Everyone will be sick if it soon!] ---------- The security patches and autoconf support from Angband. --------- The modified autoroller in Z and ZCE, which rolls 500 characters and picks the best one according to weights you supply. A few things like some new monsters and improved monster AI which are in my personal variant of vanilla but I haven't tried to turn into patches yet (bad me, bad). I love easy open, auto-squelch, and UnAngband's sub-classes (mainly wielding two weapons and no shield) Lots of stuff from Pern that is innovative and different, if unbalanced, (I know DG, it's being worked on :) Pern is definitely a hotbed of ideas. A bit more randomness in vanilla would be nice, but I can't think of anything more major than that. Many interesting rooms. ([O] seems to have quite a few). Equipment sets ala latest version of [O] Ringwraiths proposed "semipreserve mode" (Ed: artifacts appear once anywhere, afterwards only in drops) The big one is the O combat system, which I really like for the most part. Make wands actually useful in V It would be good if more variants had tiles. Even if you don't use them - others do. Also, the more people making new tiles, the less work for everyone. Bigscreen is nice. But I am experimenting myself on what I like and don't like. I am in doubt. autosquelch, the item/monster recall screens in Ey Auto picker/destroyer of Heng (of course); it's much powerful than auto- squelch. And my macro trigger patch (\[F1] etc.); because I *need* this to play any variant. Maybe some monsters from Moria, maybe not. Much importing from GW-angband and similar nearly vanilla-like variants, though. Rod stacking definitely. That makes them useful as weapons. Vaults that are between greater and lesser. The macro system rocks! Graphics:) O special rooms Big screen and autosquelch More interesting rooms like in Oangband. Or the newest Zangband dungeon generation. Centering the screen on the player, portable holes, astral option, quiver slot, fast autorolling Random artifacts, large gameworld, quests and autosquelch. I like the terrain features in OAngband as well as the different combat system, and wish other variants would use the latter. I also like the quiver. EyAngband has some great interface features, such as a very useful interface for the monster and item memory. Also, you can have a terminal window which shows all monsters in the line of sight of your character. I think every variant should have these features. The group AI in OAngband seems downright viscious at times .... but I'm not sure I'd want it in all variants. :) At least not until I get better at the game. :) Documentation. Definitely. For game features, and flavor text for items and artifacts. Oangband went a long way to addressing the lack, but not near far enough. All these posters want to identify for their (to me) weird role-playing immersion in these games: flavor text is the way to do it. It takes a lot of time to write, more to edit, and I suspect most variant makers can't write for doody (lol), but this is the obvious way to do it. Better names for artifacts not taken from foo source material would also help (note: this does NOT mean lame names taken from some other game). "Bloodspike" just don't cut it. Every item ought to be viewable for a description, and identify levels adding more text (and perhaps in some cases hinting at next level of identification). [Random artifacts are an obvious problem.] Most players don't know what a qoph is, much like what it looks like, feels like, aside from noting it can be used as a melee weapon. Autosquelch, graphics, autosquelch, interesting rooms, autosquelch, varied terrain, autosquelch, macros and autosquelch O combat, quiver. The feature I appreciate most in any variant is probably autosquelch; even though the for/against debate goes on, it's still a useful feature for sorting through stuff that might still be useful, just not neccesarily useful anymore at the depth you've dived to.. Other that that, probably the Z/P/etc-style 'additional' randarts that can show up any time as a nice surprise in addition to the standard artifact set.. ======================================================================== 25) What game feature(s) do you not like? -doors in the dungeon should be less predictable determine worthless items, so they can be destroyed easily -Extra lives in Pern. :) - monster pits made exclusively out of one type of monster -monster too far out of depth, too early -the removal of options ;) -Any attempts to balance it. -Stat-gain. Chests and traps are pretty much ignored after the 5th dungeon level, except for those darn trap door! Destroyed levels, unless players ghosts are reintroduced (I've never seen them in Vanilla). -Why are priests (the monsters) evil? I'd like Angband to return to the days of large Dragon Drops, these days the battles seem almost not worth it Very few that I cannot switch off. Monsters with teleport away (Murazor!). Uniques being immune to all the low-level spells (sleep, confuse etc.) making them almost useless. Vanilla "AI" meaning lots more self-healing. Vanilla offensive spells being too weak, making melee too important. Haggling (although it's easy to turn off). I don't like the tedium at lower levels. I'm not wild about some of the more advanced monster AI options, though I think the real problem may lie with the underlying game mechanism. For example, anything with the ability to heal itself repeatedly without limit and teleport away at will is going to be problematic with any kind of reasonable AI. I also didn't like the fact that some of the monster flow options seemed to stop working when I turned them on - it was back to orcs stacking up against a wall opposite me while ignoring an open door a few squares away. I also wasn't too impressed with player ghosts when I tried a variant that had them. A bit too Nethackish. it's frustrating that only mages have access to temporary electricity, acid, and poison resist haggling -- not that i've done it in the past half-decade :) I wish there was a "Teleport To Level XX" spell in Vanilla. Forcing people to go down levels one-by-one gets irritating. Angband Mage spells could use an update. The tombstone :) Non-maximize mode, haggling, non-haggling tax, shopkeeper purses, hounds. Oangband's class-specific chests. PernAngband's new plot-driven quests. The IRC client in PernAngband. Joke monsters in any non-joke variant. Player ghosts. Clumsy targetting etc. To be honest, I don't like the gradual Americanisation of all the game text - mould to 'mold', armour to 'armor', and so on. I don't like the way the player can (and is encouraged to) kill Farmer Maggot and harmless idiots on the town level without reprisals - I prefer Kamband's handling, where monsters can be 'protected by the law', attacking them by accident generates a request for confirmation, and deliberately killing them produces swarms of warriors out to avenge the innocent. It's possible to survive, but it definitely discourages casual slaughter! I don't like the way that bashing down doors has become almost impossible for any character with a strength under 18/00 (not to mention the paralysis side-effect that makes auto-repeat unusable) - low-level characters with poor lock-picking skills simply can't get through doors any more, even /in extremis/. I don't like the new layout of the character description screen - far too many numbers, of marginal interest at best. Most of this stuff IMO belongs on a second or subsequent screen (if anywhere), like the resist data, so that number-crunchers can study it if they like. All I want to know is my name, a bit of background, my current and maximum stats, XP for next level, gold, plus/minus to hit/damage, and the levels of my various skills. The damage per-round calculator included by [Cth] is quite nice too. To be frank, I'd rather have an extra ten characters' space for my character's name than know what my 'internal' stats were. I'd play more variants if they'd actually display the Adam Bolt graphics as correctly-sized squares instead of the rectangular, distorted squishies they look like now. Z's stupid "joke" monsters. auto-open. this isn't a monster, but still, the --more-- prompt. when you've got 8 attacks yourself and are surrounded by as many monster with 4 or more attacks, it gets a bit crazy trying to clear the stupid messages. and then you die. i'd like a larger message area so i wouldn't have to deal the --more-- prompt so much. make the screen five lines taller on systems that support it and use that to handle the message spew. item floor stacking. a) Zangband(>2.5.x)'s wilderness - it is beautiful to look at but horribly annoying to play in. b) unavoidable instadeaths (there are still a few out there). c) shopkeepers with purses below 10000. d) the jagged power progression in some variants including standard angband. Rogues in vanilla don't have enough to differentiate them from other classes. Warriors could be better at fighting with big heavy weapons, such as getting the chance to actually have the maximum six attacks with really heavy weapons like Grond, Deathwreaker or the Trident of Wrath. One gripe - PLEASE PUT HALFLINGS BACK TO 7HP/LEVEL. I like playing them as a challenge and for their incredibly good secondary skills. Superb stats and mana, miserable HP. The stores need serious re-thinking. Some very critical items are only in the black market and should be in the main shops, like *ID* scrolls and many of the mushrooms. I would like to see the external files converted to english and simple to understand - newbie easy. Autosquelch, easy open/disarm, point-based generation, enforced Maximize or 'half-Maximize' mode, extended town and/or fixed quests. explosive breeding is retarded. also, "it breathes *foo* -- more -- you die". GOI. Preserve Items useless for most classes, such as essences in Pern. Wildernesses Death wilderness being so damn dangerous in 2.6 - now I can't wander around outside the dungeon as I never know when a Headless will jump out of the undergrowth! Autosquelch (I generally like looking through all the treasure, though an option for destroying worthless items without confirm is nice). Easy open/disarm (I want to decide myself when to open or disarm (sometimes purposely triggering a teleport or summon trap is useful)). I would like to request the modernizing of the intro splash screen and the death screen. With color. I do not love autosquelching. I am also not fond of the Angband non-magical combat system, miss the more colorful and varied messages that got lost in version 2.7.#, am worried about multiplying *_info. txt files that actually restrict the scope for game changes, and am now glaring at some lua code that looks like an entry in an obsfucated C contest. Having to town scum for scrolls of word of recall and similar supplies. Like I said, floor stacking. I think it's caused too many problems, and lost us some important strategy. I think a more thorough updating of the code, to better take advantage of today's technology, would be good. In all honesty, I wish there was either a save game feature or option that would give people the choice of how they wanted to play the game; copying save files is boring (and dangerous) after a while. The help section could also be a lot better--it seems like entering and exiting certain sections don't work the way they're supposed to, and information can be very difficult to find or discern. Too many special feelings in non-preserve. Superhuge vaults that take hours to clear. Double rate spellcasting monster AI. Pack AI. I hate autosquelch. Whoever came up with that should be squelched. I *want* staves of summoning, dagnabbit! I don't like the amount of typing that's needed to repeatedly shoot, say, a group of cave spiders. I don't like junk, item generation algorithms that produce a lot of things that are basically junk, and I don't like how autosquelch systems are treated as a solution, when they just cover over the root problem. Some things are a bit kludgy or even dodgy. and i don't believe in half-maximize, either: people pick their professions according to their preferences and potentials, or they're terminally unsuccessful. Monster hitpoint inflation, lopsided monster balances: e.g. monsters with puny melee attacks and manastorm; high-level dragons that try to scare or confuse you. Stretches of boredom and "checklist syndrome" (don't go to 1000' without free action and see invisible; don't go past 1500' without the elemental resists; don't go past 2000' without confusion and poison resistance). The cheating options - I think those encourage a view that cheating is a good thing to do. Removing options - why enforce floor stacking in vanilla for example? Though I would always play with it on if it was an option, others would prefer playing with it off. Leave it as an option, so that each one can play the game she/he enjoys. Sillyness - I prefer having a consistent theme, and as little sillyness as possible. Nothing wrong with variants with sillyness though - they are enjoyable by other people, just not by me. Big empty areas with nothing interesting in them; I remember Vanilla having lots of this... Haggling, although I never use it. Magic systems that make you lug around books and/or items to cast even the simplest spells. (ADOM's spell memorization is infinitely superior in my mind.) door and trap system, they have no use. Doors and traps should be harder, seem to remember that Timo Pietilä posted long suggestion list of doors and traps Stat gain. I can never finish it without getting sick of the game. Many things in Pern (how do you turn floor list off? irc client, why??) Joke monsters, naturally. Mandatory floor stacking, or make drops fewer and better... large packs of easy monsters dropping tons of worthless items in the late game. - Features and character types that are 'thrown in', but not really playable. - Excessive numbers of class specific items. - Monsters stronger than Morgoth (if Morgoth is in the variant). - Excessive amounts of plot. - Arbitrary dangers that can consistent kill characters despite reasonably cautious play. - Magic depths, where it is advisable to spend disproportionate periods of time. I find that Angband suffers from long boring stretches. I've got a mage with everything but the last dungeon spellbook and a few speed items. I should delete the save file; continuing on involves more boredom than I can stand. - ESC should halt all further messages to the screen. I use the space bar to clear --MORE-- prompts. There are so many &^%# worthless messages that the key is wearing out. (No joke; it has developed an unpleasant squeak.) Some message management would be nice. Instead of a lot of "the orc is hit hard --MORE--", how about: more than three monsters affected by an area attack gives "One orc is killed and several are hit hard" and send other messages for that attack to Pluto. (As it happens, I've done message management at work. I should study the messages and come up with specific suggestions.) - It would be nice if something were added to Farmer Maggot to show him up as a villain. Right now, he's obnoxious, but not evil. The first time I killed him, it was only because he trapped me in the corridor leading out of the black market. Even, say, a 4% chance of "Farmer Maggot hits you with his walking stick" for 1d1 would make this point. - Oh, and making YACDs fit inside 72 characters would help when someone posts YACD to the group. With lines auto- matically wrapped at 72 characters, YACDs are hard to read. The standard autoroller. Waiting forever in stat gain The interface for floor stacks is somewhat awkward. That Other Roguelike Game(TM) displays an inventory-like listing of stuff on the floor to select from, at least for some actions like picking up stuff form the floor. I certainly wouldn't want to imitate its "There is a scroll here; read it?" ad infinitum interface, though. [Ed: I believe this refers to the situation before easy floor.] Ironman options. They seem superfluous. There is no need for a birth option that enforces a challenge. A conduct system like NetHack's could easily replace these and be cool to show off in char dumps (illiterate winner would just be amazing to see) autoroller - it's a good idea, just not quite right (I don't think that you should be able to get better stats from the autoroller than from point based) auto scum really needs to be a birth option, The lack of the O combat system, or a similar attempt to remodel the combat system. The town and the shops. They suck. It's a tad bit better with the wilderness, but as in Vanilla it is quite meaningless. I also do not like the use of Maggot and equivalent in variants. Bashing is useless unless you have god-like strength. O style combat (version 1) A dagger with ultra powerful magic is too weak! I don't know details of version 2. But I'm putting my hope on it. [Ed: You're absolutely right about that dagger in Version 1.] Broken features, like missile weapon criticals, chest being crap, mage acting like warrior, four blows with whip at start with warrior, too huge effect of RoDam for total damage. Well, I'm the dude who posts once in a blue moon about dracolisks and dracoliches being too similar. circular detection big screen support, since it made circular detection necessary Resetting recall Stat Gain The new Zangband wilderness. Currently I'm doubting the success of the Pern to-be-feature skills, but it's not close to be ready yet, so I don't know. I certainly don't like the new Z wilderness and towns, and O combat, and neither do I like the suggestions for half-preserve. I don't like angels being monsters in the dungeon. Also, it doesn't make intuitive sense to me that very small, light weapons, such as whips, are the "ultimate" weapons. That's the main reason I like OAngband. I *really* don't like the annoying creatures in the town level. I don't mind a "ghost town". It doesn't seem right to slaughter everybody in the town, but if you don't, they're just too much of a nuisance ... especially when they can actually damage you if you don't kill them first. If I ever did a variant, I'd very seriously consider removing all town-level creatures ... or at least scale them back and make them not so annoying. One more ... the 18/xxx for stats seems silly. EyAngband has stats that run from 1 to 30 (or so) which just seems easier to understand to me. It also looks "cleaner". Agreed, to a point. Gathering and hoarding such when they are available is part of the game, part of smart play. Smart play is to be encouraged by nasty character deaths. (Any moves to remove all threat of instadeath are crap.) I think teleport should be sold, at moderate expense and occasionally in vanilla town. Invulnerability ought to be removed entirely. Wraithform, same. Personally, I loathe wildernesses, but a case can be made for them. The uselessness of money in the second half of the game I think auto-squelch is the wrong way to go. If there is need for it, then there's a problem in the game which should be fixed, not swept under the carpet. Auto-scum is a similar bad solution, IMHO. The only thing I can think of that annoys me is that you can't combine your Arrows (1d4) {average} with your Arrows (1d4) (+0,+0). Maybe it's possible that the {average} arrows could be enchanted up or down, in which case that wouldn't be feasible, but... it's still annoying. ======================================================================== 26) What about Angband in general or any variant of Angband do you wish that there were more or better information about? (in the form of in-game docs or information display, or out-of-game spoilers, how-tos, FAQs, customization tips, etc.) object descriptions features in past versions that might or might not come back [Z] I'd like more information about the damage capacities of rods/wands/etc. [O] is a start, but needs to have /current/ damage, not /range over all levels/. Macros, inscriptions How to make and submit patches (In fact files in general) to clockwork I don't use some of the spells because I don't really know exactly how they work, Prot. from Evil and sanctuary in particular. Up to date docs (for all *bands), and more information on what an Item DOES once it's IDed -there's nothing which tells you what most of the items which aren't weapons or armour do. [CatH]. It has a lot of features that come as surprises. I like surprises, but there should be some things in more detail. Even the source notes are vague. They probably make sense to neko, but not to me. I think virtually all variants, and Angband itself, could use more of all the things you mentioned. Good Documentation seems the last item on the list for everyone, except Oangband and lately Pern. A comprehensive set of updated spoilers would be nice Almost everything really, but especially spell lists, items and item abilities. Spell descriptions are a good example (I know Pern has these and probably others do to) and I like Oangband's object descriptions as well. Recalling my more newbie days, I remember thinking that some clues to staff activations would have been nice. Staves of Curing vs. Healing, or Power vs. Holiness, for example. I had no idea what they did and trying them didn't seem to do anything. Some hints in the manual would have been nice. i think newbie info could be radically updated. Better documentation of how character generation, combat, abilities, spells, etc. work would be nice. I mean, most of us can always go to the source code if we've got a question, but not everybody can. A guide to the source code perhaps, but that might be a bit of a mammoth undertaking :) in-game docs that are (sometimes grossly) out-of-date -- if you know it's misleading, don't bother including it because it gets taken as therefore correct and we have endless confusion... Better-organized help files. Pern needs detailed spoilers. Spell effects in variants that use their own spells/prayers. I wish that EyAngband 0.4.0 was properly documented, because that would save me the trouble of writing the new docs. Seriously, however, I feel that what the game lacks most is in-game docs geared at explaining the basic game concepts to beginners. All of it. Particularly easily keyed info from character generation screens. All of them! I want all docs for all variants in all formats... But really. Back when I was new as new, docs were gold. I didn't know about the source code or *_info files back then and I think better docs will bring many more players to *band. Well, maybe not bring - hold. What the various stuff actually *looks* like - again, I'd single out [O] for doing a good job here. What the vital stat is for non-standard classes - Kamband is a particular culprit here. For any variant - exactly how it differs from vanilla Angband, and what I should be looking for. (If I can't see any noticeable difference in the first few levels' play, I won't bother giving the variant hard-disc space - Angband is taking up a significant proportion of my 400Mb as it is.) What various spells actually do, if not immediately apparent when cast. For example, in Frog-knows Bless had no perceptible effects (didn't show up on plus to-hit display) and so for years I never used it. Once more [O] gets praise! V needs updated spoilers. In fact, many variants need better updated spoilers, strategy guides, etc. I'd love to see a really well-written and detailed strategy guide for surviving V, since I can't seem to figure it out in all of these years since frog-knows. i'd like artifact memory similar to monster memory. after all, if you've found xthanc in a previous life. i'd like have an artifacts *not* found list. I think there is a huge scope for improved documentation. I've sat down several times to write down all the tips and tricks I've picked up in more than 10 years of playing but can never seem to find the time to do a proper job of it. I particularly think there is a need for a "tactics" guide to address things such as combat strategies - when and how to use what techniques, inventory and home management, money management - what to carry home, when to sell, etc. More up-to-date in-game docs for vanilla. I do my best to come up with docs at least for my own patched version, but there's things there that I don't know and therefore can't explain. I've found that the in-game documentation [V] is actually quite excellent. In-game information about spell/staff/rod/wand effects (Ey is making steps towards this, O of course has done it for ages) What do the spells you have to choose between actually do. getting started, how to survive the first levels etc - it's a very tough game and it can be very frustrating when your character dies Better and more up-to-date help (often it seems games are changed but the help is forgotten). I'd like to see more documentation on the % (interact with visuals) command. In particular, I'd like to know how I can quickly get to one monster and change its color, so I can make those $%^$#$# Pern Ringwraiths easier to spot... Just about everything. Updated spoilers and a brief, friendly guide to macros would be good places to start. Better instructions for setting up complicated macros - I can manage simple ones The spells. I did not knew what "sanctuary" was for years It seems like all of the available spoiler/help files are out of date, and in a game as rich and complex as Angband, that simply should not be. Perhaps it is because I just started playing O, but I would really love to see spoilers for all the extra stuff in there. Better macro docs would be nice. The [V] docs are unclear on certain points and comparatively scanty though this has improved with recent versions. [O]'s docs are well worth looking at and maybe emulating. In general, I want the ingame documentation to be good enough that there is no need to use spoiler Maybe macro usage (I know most of the stuff, but for newbies..). The weapon descriptions in O and room descriptions in Un also sound interesting. More comprehensive and up-to-date strategy guides and spoilers would be a welcome addition. Key depths and scary monsters. I can get through the C code easily enough, but I can't really assimilate the data in the info files. I think it would be nice if someone with big amount of free time brings vanilla spoilers from 2.7.9v6 up to date. They're nice source of informations for not-source-divers. Weapon damage calculator aka "Timo Borg" would be nice to have, especially for O Combat variants. I'm terribly bad at math. Up-to-date spoilers for vanilla! Well, everything. But I would like to see the game better designed so that you don't need a lot of information, especially at first. It would be nice if there was a guide on how to start an Angband variant, but I don't know how you would go about writing one. I'd like vanilla to have Pern's exp display option. Counting backwards is what I'm mainly interested in, not the total value of my exp. Lots of *bands suffer from in game docs that are behind, but such is the way of games like this...coding is fun, doc writing is not! [O] and [Z] documentation excellent, [V] was also very good, [P] seems to have a lot of documentation too (but still some things seems hard to find for a newbie) Good documentation has always been a sore point if you ask me. I'd like to see a character's start date in the stats; a better macro interface; Arrows /bolts and shots should have information about how much average damage they do on them in-game. Pern is an interesting variant but it's not very well documented. At least it's not accessible and readable. I would like to see more variant specific docs, explaining the new features that the maintainers have added. Not sure. If some in-game docs exist, it is enough. Sadly Heng is missing these in- game docs. I am very happy with the information available, beats other commercially available games! General documentation of things, I hate to play variants that have a new race, without any documentation about what it is, or about magical items which are hard to figure out what they do (IE Ring of Precognition - Pern) It's not always obvious what various magical items like potions, rods, scrolls, etc., do. Better documentation on this would be helpful. Also, I like to see better defined item bonuses. So, instead of saying a weapon is "especially deadly against dragons", I'd like to see "does triple damage vs dragons", or whatever the case may be. I guess this is something that only matters to a newbie, but I think it does make the game a bit more intimidating than it needs to be. Also, for defensive spells and effects, I'd like to know more details as to their effects. Of course, our characters wouldn't necessarily know this kind of detailed information on the items they came across in the dungeon, but you have to draw the line between playability and realism, and I lean slightly towards the playability side. Better documentation is definitely needed, as well as better information on in-game items and spells. OAngband has great documentation, and I hope that every other variant could have as good help files as O. A little information about some of the items would be good at times, especially for the effects of certain potions or devices (eg, I'm still not really 100% sure what effects a potion/staff/rod of Curing has..).. I'm happy with the current level of documentation.